Talk:Earth-TRN582
Move Even though it's a creator-owned series, it was vaguely implied in the graphic novel that Void Indigo could be set on Earth-616, since the four sorcerers are said to be survivors of Atlantis and bring up things like Zhered-Na and Sominus. -- Lord Crayak (talk) 00:21, September 23, 2016 (UTC) :Is the creator owned series aspect that important? That's only point I saw proposed to explain the story to not be set in Earth-616. A counter-example to dismiss that point would be Marada Starhair (Earth-616) and her supporting characters and antagonists, heavily referenced in handbooks.Undoniel (talk) 23:14, April 23, 2019 (UTC) ::A few facts and hypothesis on shared stuff with 616 (nothing explicitly setting the story): ::* The land where the 11,000 years ago stuff happens is in modern-day New Mexico. ::** The Hyborian Age of Conan (12,000 years ago) doesn't show much of Mayapan, Zothique and others (except for a brief adventure on the west coast of -IIRC- the south or central Americas, and the North). ::** It is not strange to have "caucasian"/white people in that area, given Atlanteans went there in Earth-616. The Dark Lords themselves being allegedly Atlantean survivors. ::* The Great Cataclysm and Atlantis's fall happened before 11,000 years ago (so it's like fitting the most accepted datation of that event). ::* The Cataclysm caused by the final encounter of Ath'gaar and the Dark Lords occured in 9,000 BC (11,000 years ago) and could be related to the Post-Hyborian Cataclysm (happened between 9,500 and 8,000 BC, and presumably closer of 8,000 BC -which fit also with the Cataclysm hitting Mu (Pacific Ocean), possibly for a second time-) ::* Kaok is lord of Sominus, instead of Thog. ::* Zhered-Na is mentioned, as being the spawn of Kaok, lord of Sominus (or of Sominus itself?) (Zhered-Na and Sominus are related in . ::That being listed, there nothing to prove or infirm the theories of that reality being part of Earth-616, or at the contrary that the story would be kind of a pastiche of Conan in an alternative reality for its introduction (barbarian kill evil wizards circa 10,000 BC). I've checked every handbook entry I could think of (demons, Atlantis, Zhered-Na...) in vain (my last chance being maybe the Superhuman residents section in the USA's entry in the Marvel Atlas). The Appendix hasn't made any mention of it (but that could explain why there is no handbook entry...). Last way would be to ask authors and writers (I'm thinking of Jeff Christiansen for the handbook, I'll have to check if the author is still alive). Undoniel (talk) 18:34, April 24, 2019 (UTC) :::I generally would air on the side of not lumping in this small 3-issue world in with mainstream continuity without some more concrete proof. For instance, just mentioning characters from Earth-616 is not enough (in my opinion) to include this in Earth-616, or by that metric we would be obligated to include Kid 'n Play Vol 1 in Earth-616 canon. We could always hound the handbook guys about it, but being that this is in fact a creator-owned title from an imprint, there's a real chance it would be ignored. --Spencerz (talk) 23:40, April 24, 2019 (UTC) ::::Gerber is unfortunatelly deceased. I found a reference stating he replied e-mails about Void Indigo. ::::And I haven't found anything at all in handbooks (just checked a few other ideas). ::::I would be in favor to count it mainstream continuity, because we admit most to all stories that don't explicitelly contradict unless stated so (and neither the novel, the two issues nor the little I read of the 4 last issues' script carried anything as such). The creator-owned criteria doesn't apply unless Marada is an exception to a rule (I haven't found such rule so far, the mentions to the shared universe being about creative freedom). The references could either a way to integrate the story in the marvel universe, or a simple reference. I'm still looking for statement, even from non-Marvel sources, but it revolves only around the cancellation and bad quality of the Void Indigo series. ::::Have we an explicit and motivated guideline on the matter of "what is Earth-616"?, in order to avoid case-by-case solving with double standards (not that it shouldn't be solved case-by-case: I haven't read Kid n' Play so I can't say for this one). Undoniel (talk) 00:28, April 25, 2019 (UTC) :::::Like many things, I don't believe we've ever had a concrete policy about it. The general rule of thumb from back in the day (and the way I still personally interpret things) was that everything published under the Marvel umbrella was ''non-canon'' unless it was explicitly stated otherwise (i.e. reference materials/handbooks/etc); barring that, if something was connected to an established canon character/team/reality, then that was safely considered to be canon as well. For instance, this line of interpretation was how we came to the conclusion that Tarzan was canon to Earth-616, via interaction with Abdul Alhazred, despite Tarzan never featuring anywhere else in greater Marvel canon, or in reference materials. Things were always a case by case basis, but this line of thinking is also why, more than a decade since we started, we are very scarce on pages for creator-owned properties: because so few of them ever met that barrier for inclusion in the canon. --Spencerz (talk) 03:08, April 25, 2019 (UTC) Okay, I guess I was confused due to a lot of stuff being listed in Non-Canon Characters (And What to Do With Them) as "non-canon Earth-616" (the listing includes pages from Earth-616). I will try to do some work on those pages as soon (I wrote already a few lines for the Hyborian Age page). Undoniel (talk) 06:07, April 25, 2019 (UTC) :Forgot about a point (which I don't think does help on the matter), Gerber is the creator of both Sominus and Zhered-Na: he is making references to his own work (either as an innocent reference or as a way to settle his story in the shared universe). Undoniel (talk) 23:55, April 25, 2019 (UTC) :The point of the "non-canon characters" forum thread is that they are pages we've created for characters/realities that, like this one, never actually met that rule of thumb barrier for inclusion in what we cover as "canon". The point was to either find sources for their inclusion in canon, or to delete them for not being in our scope of coverage. Obviously we never got around to the deletion piece, but that's what it was intended to be. --Spencerz (talk) 05:09, April 29, 2019 (UTC) ::Yes, I recall that now. I just asked Jeff Christansen for any clue on the matter. Undoniel (talk) 17:32, April 29, 2019 (UTC) ::: I'm looking at a lot of points that are being made here, and I'm going to have to admit I'm not very well versed in Conan presently, but a lot of the stuff here about Atlantis and Zhered-Na and so on were heavily referenced in Gerber's run on Man-Thing. If I were to suppose where he was drawing inspiration, I think he was drawing it from there. Also, when you consider how prickly Gerber was (especially in later years) regarding Marvel taking ownership of his creations, I'm wondering if this was another one of his ways of "taking back" his own work. Kind of like what he did in when he "took back" Howard the Duck. We'll never know for sure since he's dead, but I'd like to think that Gerber would have wanted to keep this out of the Marvel Universe proper (at least) so he could retain some ownership over it. That's my take, mind you, I don't really have a horse in this race, just providing my own take on it. Good luck guys. Nausiated (talk) 01:52, May 1, 2019 (UTC) ::::I had the exact same thought as your remark on Gerber taking back his work (SOminus and Zhered-Na being his very creations). I'm going through Fear to see if there is any more things referenced in Void Indigo. Undoniel (talk) 05:32, May 1, 2019 (UTC)